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submitted 5 days ago by stemy@lemmy.ml to c/atheistmemes@lemmy.world
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[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 8 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Don't try to apply logic like that, there is no logic.
It's more likely to be a myth based on merely a heavy shower that became exaggerated over time.
The only truth to the Bible is like Harry potter was at a train station that actually exist in London. That does not make Harry Potter based on reality. In the same way some commonly known things in the Bible actually existed. But everything else is made up 100%.

Remember the Ark also had unicorns!
Yes a rainy day exist, but that's about it.

[-] Uruanna@lemmy.world 9 points 5 days ago

A large part of the Biblical version is a copy-paste of the Sumerian myth (like a lot of the mythological parts of the Bible), which was only centered on the area of the city of Shuruppak. And we know that there were a few big events of the Euphrates flooding severely (Mesopotamian floods are a lot more destructive and unpredictable than the Niles), and one flood event in particular, dated around 2900 BCE, largely destroyed Shuruppak and a couple other cities in the area (they got better).

The Black Sea deluge hypothesis is popular but that rise was spread over a few thousand years, there was no sudden flood, no one was surprised.

[-] spankysalmon@fedinsfw.app 3 points 5 days ago

There have been several mega-floods throughout history that wiped out regions basically as big as human civilizations traded at the time. They were caused by various fallout from the ice age ending. Even some in North America. These are MASSIVE, once every ice age types of events. Humans didn't manage to keep much between ice ages, and that's if you take the evidence that humans have even existed as homo sapiens that long.

One example is the Bonneville floods. Thousands of years of erosion in days' time. There is evidence for another similar event up by Washington. That's just two, in close proximity geographically. There is similar evidence over in that region of biblically sized floods. Floods that would put any weather related floods to shame by several orders of magnitude.

It's probably just a corrupted story of one of those events, corrupted into that one story of a rancher basically doing exactly the story of Noah (minus all the preaching and grand-standing) for his ranch, for one of those smaller once a thousand years type floods.

[-] Uruanna@lemmy.world 0 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

If there's one thing we know it's not, it's those kinds of floods, because those you talk about come from Ice Age and giant glaciers sliding or breaking down giant lakes. There was none of those in the Middle East when humans existed, not in Mesopotamia which is a giant flat plain, and that's where those stories came. We know the biblical account is a copy of the Sumerian account, and we know what event the Sumerian account comes from. It's not an Ice Age story, and it doesn't come from an earlier, older memory from WAY further North. The closest event to that is indeed the Black Sea expansion that happened at the end of that period, and we know that one took a few thousand years.

[-] spankysalmon@fedinsfw.app 0 points 4 days ago

lol no. There were several megafloods in the middle east. Your ignorance is proof of nothing.

[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

I bet the people that wrote the Bible had no knowledge of those events.

[-] Uruanna@lemmy.world 5 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

The period of the Babylonian captivity, when they were brought to Babylon as prisoners and stayed several decades through the 6th c. BCE before being freed by Cyrus II, is likely a point where they brought a lot of Babylonian culture back to Jerusalem. Plus, the god of the Bible comes from two origins, Yahweh and El, the latter being a storm god that had a lot of cultural osmosis in the entire second millennium BCE, being associated with Enlil and Baal, through whom the Sumerian and Akkadian stories did get around. So there's definitely a part where some of those stories made their way into Canaanite culture by themselves, then the Hebrews and Jews, naturally over several centuries to become their own ancestral culture, and a part where the Jews brought back and adopted Babylonian stories when they returned from the exile. We can tell because of the narrative / writing style and the variations that we can find, we can date when some of those stories appeared.

In the case of the Flood story, the text has too many similarities, identical lines, to not be straight up copy-pasted from Babylonian texts after the exile - but even then, there's a couple variations of the Biblical story that does suggest they already had a memory of that story in their own culture (40 days or 7 days, that sort of details). It's fairly likely that they simply considered that those stories were about the same god as their El, in the same way the Greeks would go "oh, you have a god of thunder too? I bet his name is Zeus. I like your story about Zeus." And really, they're not wrong, since they do have the same origin, they are in fact the same god, branching into many cultures across Mesopotamia over a couple millennia.

So no, they definitely didn't know anything about the actual event that inspired the deluge story (you can tell by how it's all an abstract threat to them, because the Jordan river doesn't flood anything like the Euphrates, compared to the real threat and pain of exile), but they knew about the story of the deluge.

[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago

Thanks very informative. I still believe you can analyze this shit to hell, and all you end up with is no actual knowledge of what the fuck is true or false. They are basing it on stories passed down through generations without knowing if they are true or merely allegories. When they turn out to be actually true, it is more coincidence than anything else.
That's why I don't really care if there was some event that was the basis for the stories in the Bible, because it'¨s irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the superstition surrounding it, not the truth of it.

[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 5 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Yeah but it’s fun and fun is more fun than logic. Especially with inconsequential bullshit like this.

Now if you’ll excuse me I’m having a deep conversation with a blue jay which logically can’t happen but I’m gonna to enjoy it anyway.

[-] SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today 3 points 5 days ago

Especially with inconsequential bullshit like this.

I wish it was inconsequential. Grown adults believe this nonsense is literally true, and they vote.

[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago

I’m a grown adult who talks to birds and I vote.

[-] Blibly@lemmy.world 4 points 5 days ago

Your conversation with that bird is more real that anything in that book.

Except for that time all those kids got eaten by that bear that shit was lit.

[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 2 points 5 days ago

I bet the tales of genocide in the Old Testament happened, too.

A bit less lit, though

[-] spankysalmon@fedinsfw.app 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

No, there IS logic. No matter how silly religious goons are, NEVER dismiss anthropology.

These might be corrupted stories, but they have been carried down through history. To completely dismiss it just because some fools take allegory literally is to choose ignorance of human history.

[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

Or just disregarding superstition without evidence.

[-] spankysalmon@fedinsfw.app 2 points 4 days ago

You can disregard all of the superstitious beliefs people derive from it and still see it for the epic from history that it is. Just like people still read and study the Epic of Gilgamesh without believing all the fantasy aspects. Or Greek mythology, etc.

You don't have to believe the superstitions to never the less be able to find great anthropological value.

[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 0 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

You can disregard all of the superstitious beliefs people derive from it and still see it for the epic from history that it is.

That's like trying to learn about London by reading Harry Potter.
No you can't, because nothing in the Bible is trustworthy, the Bible is not a historically accurate document.

There is no platform 9 3/4 in the Kings Cross railway station, despite the clear description of it in Harry Potter, and in the exact same way the historical descriptions of the bible are highly unreliable. So any truth value has to be determined from other sources than the bible. Which means the bible is irrelevant even detrimental for such studies.

You can read the bible as a book of fiction nothing more.

[-] spankysalmon@fedinsfw.app 0 points 3 days ago

lol OK just ignore most of how history is studied then... Genuinely ignorant attitude you have. Pathetic.

[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

What's pathetic is to attribute any value to the bible, a collection of stories written by ignorant superstitious delusional morons.

this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2026
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