this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2023
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Yeah, I’m really puzzled at what they’re thinking. I suspect this most recent statement is entirely motivated by wanting to control the narrative going into the election after the treasury report yesterday, but I’m also confused as to why they didn’t continue with the tax switch plan in the report. Seems like an easy win and relatively easy to communicate - my (pessimistic) feeling is they’re just not wanting to risk any chance of an election loss at all.
I agree with you - I really like Bernard’s take and I think the tone of it is absolutely spot on, because this really is an ongoing issue of parties (and voters) ignoring obvious solutions - but I don’t think it’s off the cards for a whole generation. I think this election is going to be a fascinating one, especially with the amount the smaller parties are picking up in the polling. You’re right, in 10-20 years so many of the problems we’re facing now are going to be so much more evident and affecting so many more of us.
I think they are. Remembering how they were between 2008 and 2017, at least. It was mostly luck that a constitutional clause let Ardern rapidly be elected leader because it was so close to the election. Before that Labour's image was endless infighting, and the inability to present a cohesive unit really hampered credibility of the messaging.
To me, at least, it seems the main way out of this would be if Labour lost the upcoming election, then somehow got its act together super quick to go back to arguing for a wealth tax, then National+ACT had a really difficult time working together so as to cause their collective popularity to drop horrendously in a short time.
Labour hasn't made a secret of the fact that it would like a wealth tax. It's just repeatedly committed not to do it, because it thinks that's the best way to win over the small number of swing voters it needs which National and ACT are also obsessively targeting with fears about what to expect from a Labour+Green+TPM tax policy.
Yeah, this is interesting, eh - I guess labour are aware that Greens & Te Pāti Māori are picking up a lot of their votes on the left and are trying to court the centre voters National and Act are picking up - which makes some sense, but boy is it not working in their favour huh
Personally, I'm opposed on principle to taxing someone just for having something. Tax economic activity, sure, but I dislike the concept of a wealth tax.
Same with land value tax, it's just a bad principle.
Agreed. No wealth tax, but capital gains, certainly.
It's really not, it's the main way we've broken up mass inequality and uneven power distribution in the past.
Why should simply owning things be more lucrative than producing things? Our entire system is geared to the former at the moment and as Bernard says, our economy is a housing market with bits tacked on as a result
Bernard's being a tad dramatic, don't you think?
Besides, if owning something is lucrative, tax the earnings.
That seems to be his thing, yes but there's a lot to it. Capital gains tax and inheritance tax would fit the bill of taxing the earnings.
But really the end goal is to not allow enormously concentrated wealth to accrue in the first place because it completely fucks up society and the power that comes with it makes it self-reinforcing.
The only serious proposition for wealth taxes right now are very small rates (the wealth tax labour was apparently kicking around was 1.5%) and would only kick in at amounts above what the vast majority of people will ever see in their entire lifetimes.
The fact that would provide massive amounts of desperately needed funding for schools, hospitals and other public services shows how fucked up the balance of wealth in this country is.
Inheritance tax isn't taxing earnings, it's more like taxing a gift. Someone has built that wealth, paid tax on those earnings, and now that they want to pass that onto their children, the government wants another bite.
It's wrong, in my view. The underlying principle is wrong.
That's true to a point. The solution is to make it kick in at amounts above what most people will pass on and as a result you prevent dynasties forming that damage society and over time, amass so much wealth that eventually mean others can't build up anything to pass on to their children.
Being against inheritance taxes outright is actually worse for the outcomes you want.
I'm also not a fan of this type of thinking either. If it's wrong to do, it's wrong to do it to anyone. The whole "it's only x% of the population" argument just makes me uneasy.
It's literally how our tax rates work
What percentage of the population pays some form of income tax, would you say? I'm not sure how you think the two are comparable.
They're comparable because they're both applied progressively. Income tax rates scale at higher income points. Wealth tax, inheritance tax, whatever it is. If they're set to kick in at a certain threshold everyone pays the same amount up to that point - zero.
If only 0.whatever% of the population paid income tax, you'd have a point.
When I earn money I pay taxes on it. When I spend that money the business takes money that I already paid taxes on and also pays taxes on top. Apparently there is nothing wrong with double taxation.
Those are two separate transactions, of course they are treated differently.
They pay taxes on the profit, unless you're talking about GST.
Just like inheritance.
That too. Let's put that in the mix.
@Ilovethebomb @SamC personally I'm opposed to subsidising wealthy hoarders and taxes for the working poor
Cool, thanks for contributing.