this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2024
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What is the safest way for a partially disabled person in the USA to use prison for food and shelter as an alternative to dying homeless in a gutter on a cold rainy night? (lemmy.world)
submitted 3 months ago by j4k3@lemmy.world to c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world
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[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 134 points 3 months ago (12 children)

Ideally you want to go to a shelter first, because if a shelter is dangerous or unclean you can just leave (unlike jail). If you can’t find a shelter that has space for you, the next best thing is to sleep somewhere visible but somewhat sheltered and out of the way. Church doorways are ideal since if they find you they will usually offer you help rather than call the cops on you.

If none of those avenues are available to you, hit up your local library. If they don’t outright have a social worker on staff they’ll know how to put you in contact with one and help you with applying for benefits that can at least keep you fed, and will hopefully know how to most effectively get you in line for housing.

[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 52 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm too physically limited for range of mobility like this. I can't seem to find anyone that can diagnose what is actually wrong with my spine. It is in a rare region and complex. Nothing major comes up in a radiologist's MRI report, and neurosurgeons all come with a severe legislatively induced allergy to anything complicated to diagnose or work on. Of 13, only one spent the time to get into the weeds and it was only to make up a legally plausible narrative reason to claim I needed several fusions. They only took the time because they were about to lose their license for malpractice (something I had no clue about at the time). There is no such thing as a House like spinal doctor that will observationally diagnose a person regardless of their ability to treat or the risk involved. If they diagnose the issue they will face subpoenas and lots of time wasted to bureaucratic nonsense. The only options appear to be paying several thousand dollars for a shady lawyer that can bribe their way through the hoops of capitalist privateers or homelessness/suicide. This is Los Angeles where there are 100k homeless within 100 miles of where I lay. There are no available social workers, and every shelter is beyond full. Even the homeless that try to group to help each other are attacked like rabid feral animals by orders of the criminal Newsom. I need a more effective plan.

[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 39 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I’m sorry you’re going through all that, I’m living in LA and also disabled from spinal issues so I’ve experienced a lot of what you’re talking about as well. I’ve basically resigned myself to ‘smoke weed all the time’ being the extent of medical management of my pain, because doctors can’t/won’t do anything else for me without potentially making other problems worse. Back problems are awful and not having any concrete answers is just about as bad.

What part of LA are you in, roughly, if you’re OK sharing? If you’re able to ride public transit I’d be happy to search around to try to find more resources near you.

In addition to getting arrested being dangerous, sleeping on a jail cot is probably going to be absolutely godawful for your back, at least as bad as sleeping in a doorway. If you’re sleeping on the ground outside you at least have some control over your environment, compared to jail.

[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 25 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Thanks. I'm in south OC and not in any present danger or state of mind. I was just denied disability for the second time in 4 years and trying to talk myself into mental options available beyond lead or fentanyl as my ultimate outcome.

Holding posture for longer than an hour has cascading repercussions that last days to weeks. If I am upright, ie. sitting or standing, I am hurting. After around an hour of endurance, I will be unable to sleep well enough to recover. I barely ever sleep six hours a day at most and even that is rather low quality. I turn into a zombie if this lasts for more than a week or so. At that point I start showing signs of severe sleep deprivation and mental instability typical of any human in such a state. My entire life revolves around avoiding this state. I have plenty of money and security for now, but no way to effectively support myself long term. I'm well above average and mentally capable, but I go through periodic ups and downs that are unpredictable. Stupid minor things can injure me. The lows disconnect me from a professionally competent state of mind, and I'm generally irritable enough to not be very pleasant to be around in person. I want to be, and be myself, but the best way to put it is that my pain is constant and like living with a neighbour that always plays annoyingly loud music; EVERYTHING I do is forced to shout over that noise. It is like my internal voice is shouting over that noise and I must listen carefully to hear it. Sometimes it is just too noisy and hard to focus past it. When I am upright holding posture in any way, the noise is slowly getting louder. In physical terms, it feels like I give you a 1lb dumbbell and tell you to hold it at shoulder height with your arm fully extended–easy... at first...but try doing it for an hour. I've stubbornly pushed WAY past it to prove to myself it is not a mental thing. I was on the floor of a restaurant writhing in sharp shooting pain when a long time friend came to visit. I didn't sleep for days and took almost 2 months to recover to the point of sleeping 6 hours for the first time.

[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 3 months ago

I’m sorry dude, I’ve had a lot of family members go through the wringer trying to get disability as well. The one and only person I’ve ever known to get it first try was dying of cancer. The system is made to make people give up when they’re least able to fight it, it’s sickening.

I’m not familiar with any of OC so I’m not going to be any more helpful than a Google search on that front. But oh man, do I hear you on what the lack of sleep from pain does to you. I feel lucky I’m able to get 6-7 hours most nights, minus time spent waking up and trying to get comfortable. Thank fuck Ikea makes comparatively inexpensive foam mattresses. If you aren’t on gabapentin already, it helps with nerve pain and makes a decent sleep aid.

Are you familiar with the idea of pacing? It’s a strategy recommended for patients with ME/CFS to prevent triggering relapses, and I’ve found those ideas to be a useful way to manage chronic pain as well, on the preventative end.

Good luck man, I’ve been dealing with this shit for over half my life at this point. It sucks and it’s hard and it’s not fair and we might actually be living in one of the worst countries to be dealing with chronic medical issues. If you feel like wanting to scream and beat someone bloody over it, well, to me that’s pretty understandable.

[–] sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz 10 points 3 months ago

My symptoms are similar to yours, if not quite so bad. I can't walk more than about 50 yards, or stand for more than 10-15 minutes. I have tried for disability after my physical issues made me quit my job (after a couple of decades being a teacher for the same school district). I moved back in with my parents. Sucks to be in my 50s and stuck like this, but at least I have a roof over my head. I'm in north OC. There is zero help until you run out of all options and all money. It's really fucked up. Good luck.

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[–] Hyrulian@lemmy.world 62 points 3 months ago

Damn it's sad that this post even exists. I hope things get better for you chief.

[–] Trollivier@sh.itjust.works 47 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

This is the most dystopian thing I've read in years.I'm so sorry this has to be considered :(

[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 45 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Shoplift food until you get caught and go to jail.

If you get caught without going to jail just keep shoplifting, at least you'll always have food.

[–] Chip_Rat@lemmy.world 16 points 3 months ago

Just make sure to do it from Walmart or Lowblaw or some other government teet sucking price gouging corporation.

[–] L0rdMathias@sh.itjust.works 42 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Low effort high sentence crime like credit card or check fraud. Represent yourself in court and be a complete ass to maximize the jury's dislike of you, no sob stories reveal zero empathy for what you did. Try to find that sweet spot between minimum security prison, but long sentencing. Make a friend in jail and start a "fight" with them the day before your probation hearing or something to extend the behavior without angering the guards/warden too much?

It's a pretty high risk low reward strategy, but the risk is mostly because it's hard to get into a "good prison". Also make sure you do it in a state with free prison, some states are pay-to-stay prison, though I guess that could open the opportunity for loan fraud and another sentence if you do get out?

[–] Deestan@lemmy.world 47 points 3 months ago (1 children)

pay-to-stay prison

That sounds utterly evil

[–] sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz 36 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] Breezy@lemmy.world 20 points 3 months ago (4 children)

Similar thing for me, i learned about a month or so ago that prisoners are forced to work. I always thought it was a choice, no no no. If you dont work you can be punished in jail for not being the proper slave that you are.

[–] Facebones@reddthat.com 12 points 3 months ago

So much of our justice system would fix itself overnight if we overhauled the 13th amendment which makes inmates legally slaves.

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[–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 36 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Go to Walmart. Eat whatever you want. Sleep there

If they call the cops on you because of theft or trespassing, there ya go.

Bonus points if you find a way to do this without getting caught and live there a while.

Or start a Tiktok account and a go fund me, and tell your story on TT. Sometimes you can reach the right person near you to do something

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[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 25 points 3 months ago

for less drama, you could "steal" property from someone you know and they could helpfully press charges so you can get arrested.

just a heads up, most prisons in the US are pay to stay, so you'll accrue debt while inside, and depending on what state you're in you might have to put up a copay for your medical care.

I'd advise doing a little research and committing your inoffensive bank robbery or the like in the right area.

[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 22 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I saw a video where a guy "robbed" a bank of $1, with a "gun" that was actually a snickers bar. Then sat in the lobby and waited for the cops.

That seems like a good way to rob a bank, which is a federal crime, while not hurting anyone. And the tellers would even be able to figure out whats going on.

[–] No_Eponym@lemmy.ca 12 points 3 months ago (12 children)

That sounds like a good way to get shot...

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[–] mortemtyrannis@lemmy.ml 21 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The myth that you can go to jail and it’s free board and food is exactly that, a myth.

You’ll pay for it one way or another.

It’s peddled by conservatives who think that jail is some kind of walk in the park. Sure there are nicer prisons but it’s still prison. No one really prefers it to being out on the street.

[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago (3 children)

The alternative is worse for me. I can not survive on my own. Debt is irrelevant in death as an alternative.

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[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 20 points 3 months ago

There was an old guy a couple decades ago that walked into a bank and handed the teller a note that said "This is a robbery. Give me one dollar!". Then he went and sat down and waited for the cops. If memory serves, he did it because he needed some dental work and couldn't afford it.

[–] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 18 points 3 months ago

There is no safe way to do this - you should find a shelter - even if it's shitty and religious.

[–] Chozo@fedia.io 16 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I'm not sure how LAPD handles it, but I know that in a lot of cities, the police may just let you go if they think you're using jail as free shelter.

A buddy of mine spent a couple years homeless here in Austin, and would do low-level crimes like vandalizing things just to get picked up by the cops. He said that the police stopped arresting him after a while, and figured it was because he wasn't escalating his crimes at all; he didn't want to hurt anyone, he just wanted to sleep indoors for the night.

I'm sure LAPD is similarly too overworked and their jails too overcrowded to keep you there for more than a night or two, honestly.

[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago (3 children)

I understand, and I will hurt myself long before I would consider hurting anyone else. Fortunately, or un- depending on perspective, I am extremely capable of creative thinking in the abstract intuitive sense, and nearly what one might call competent at the applied sciences. I can think of many ways to be dangerous. White collar would be most effective in that sense. I could be an advanced script kiddie if I tried. It is not hard to devise a plan that would induce a strong response to make an example out of.

This post is primarily therapeutic; to feel like I can call some degree of attention to the frustrating reality. And to feel a little less hopeless and abandoned in the evenings following another denial of disability after waiting 2 years, and for the second time. My folks are showing their age, and existentialism is creeping in occasionally.

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[–] bobburger@fedia.io 15 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You probably want to go to a minimum security federal prison. The easiest way to get there that I think of is check fraud.

You'll need to write a bunch or bad checks in as many states as you can, or send them through the mail. You'll need to do this a lot, and for a pretty significant amount of money otherwise they'll just give you probation of some sort.

Having a disability might be a problem though; if it costs too much medically to keep you in prison they'll just out you back on the street as a compassionate release.

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[–] CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago

I feel icky responding to this because it highlights how shitty society is at taking care of our less fortunate, but if I was inclined to get myself into jail I would probably start with shoplifting the things I need to survive like food, camping supplies, etc. Very low risk of violence and if I don’t get caught, hey I’m better off.

Eventually I’d get caught. Then I can just keep not showing up for court and shoplifting food. Eventually I’ll get thrown in jail and when released I start all over. After enough times I’d graduate from county jail to prison.

I’m not recommending this course of action, but it’s probably what I’d do if that was my goal. Nobody gets hurt.

[–] Today@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Jail can be incredibly expensive!

[–] harrys_balzac@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 3 months ago (4 children)

Exactly! Make sure it's a felony otherwise you might be billed for every day you're in jail. Plus, a good enough felony will get you to prison for a good long time. Basically, anything with "grand" in the front of it.

[–] Today@lemmy.world 12 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You can end up paying room and board, mandatory counseling, classes, drug tests, etc. Plus phone calls are outrageously expensive. It's a total racket.

[–] Jimmycrackcrack@lemmy.ml 13 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

How does that work if you don't have money or just don't pay? I mean what are they going do? Put you in jail?

[–] Droechai@lemm.ee 13 points 3 months ago

Take a piece of all future income until it's paid off of you pass away. At least here you can personally bankrupt once in a life time and live on "lowest livable" amount of money for five years and then get the debts "forgiven" except those accrued during the five year period.

It's a hassle to apply and get granted though, usually not the privacy invasion invasion a recently released care to subject to

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[–] UrPartnerInCrime@sh.itjust.works 12 points 3 months ago

Head a story of this one dude who as soon as he got out of jail he would go sit in the middle of the road until he got arrested again.

[–] badbytes@lemmy.world 12 points 3 months ago

Commit a white collar federal crime. Cushy prison conditions.

[–] Moah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 3 months ago

I'm not sure prison is ever safe, but I'm sorry you're at this point in your life. I hope things get better soon

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I've heard of some people robbing a bank. The banks will generally give you the money if you threaten them and the camera will usually make it easy to identity you as a robber. You don't even need a gun, you just have to threaten people.

[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

There was someone years ago that used a bank/prison to get their cancer treated. I was thinking along these lines. Wear clothing that can not conceal anything, pass the teller a note, place a squirt gun on the counter, pass it to them, and then lay on the ground until police arrive.

[–] Kit@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Former bank employee here. You don't need a squirt gun. Theoretically you can walk into a bank, tell the teller you're robbing them and demand $1, then sit patiently on a bench and await police. The problem is that the judge at your sentencing will see that you are not truly a danger and give you probation. You will also have to pay fines.

Bear in mind that prison is not free. You are charged every day you are there, and will receive the minimum care to keep you alive.

The best option is to get a bus ticket to a part of the US with fewer homeless folks and good safety nets, then get a social worker. They will require that you don't have any living family who can help, so bear that in mind.

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[–] AnarchoNoAdjective@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 months ago

Would it be possible to volunteer some time to an organization like food not bombs I heard they were getting fines and arrested for distributing food. You could possibly secure some food, help the community and still potentially go to prison for not paying the bogus fine.

[–] Grimy@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago

As a form of protest, you could try to trespass into the white house in an obvious way. That would definitely get you jail time and maybe a GoFundMe. I figure if you have a sign, they won't shoot you.

[–] ThePantser@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago

Walk into a police station and state you just killed someone. They will lock you up, just be coy about who and where the body is and they will keep you locked up, maybe. If you want out just recant and say you just wanted some shelter. Without a body or a crime scene you will be free to go. IANAL or a cop so I could be 100% wrong in my scheme.

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