A community for Lemmy users interested in privacy
Rules:
Malice? Ignorance? Plenty of both to go around.
The morning after we chatted in the Castro, [25-year-old data analyst Ben] Gonzalez told me over Instagram DM that he was unaware Mix could share patron data with neighboring businesses but did not see a problem with it. “I think it’s cute that they share it amongst other bars,” he wrote. “It’s like a little cybersecurity community .”
https://sf.gazetteer.co/why-do-these-castro-gay-bars-have-tsa-style-face-scanners
Oh just when i was in danger of venturing out sometime.
Oh well.
To imprison them later.
The insurance industry has been pushing for them for decades. It's not just about LGBQT people. As someone who has been a bouncer for over a decade, it's kind of a necessary evil if we want to have clubs/bars/venues at all (in this day and age, in this culture).
The system scans your ID and matches it with security footage from in the venue. This is effectively the only way to consistently enforce bans in a larger venue with a multi-person security team.
Arguably the only gripe one can make privacy wise is the collection/storage of gov't ID. As obviously venues have security cameras and can assign that footage to patrons as they see fit (like liquor stores do with thieves).
While I encourage people to avoid such venues, please don't hold the owners directly accountable as they may not have had a choice.
edit: Every time I get downvoted for simply stating facts lemmings don't like I'm reminded that taking y'all seriously is a waste of time.
Imo it is best to not take downvotes seriously as people don't put thought into them beyond "this comment seems to contradict my opinion" and they also don't really affect anything, the best solution is to disable them from showing up in the settings and consider the thoughts of people bothering to write a response instead.
disable them from showing up in the settings
Hell ya thank you.
If I could I would turn off inbox notifications cuz I know which comments are going to attract the idiots before I post them.
I can back this up my parents owned bars and restaurants and the insurance companies and local police would constantly push that we had scanners.
We knew as soon as it got around that we were scanning ID our bars would tank. The irony was the people that push for them would be the first customers we would lose. We were known as a cop friendly bar, and all the local government people would frequent too. No way they would want to be seen as a regular in a database.
We also had no camera's in the bar/restaurant area for the same reason. My old man was big on privacy...
It's very much people wanting to have their cake and eat it to. People want trouble makers to see justice, but we also don't want to live in a society ruled by violence.
What most Gen-Z and younger folk don't know is that before cameras were everywhere, trouble makers were taught violently who would not tolerate their trouble makery.
But now trouble makers only answer to the cameras that can prove them guilty in a court of law. Hence why alcohol venues are logging ID's. Because insurance companies are tired of paying out lawsuits, and government regulators are tired of alcohol venues getting people drunk and causing problems.
What most Gen-Z and younger folk don't know is that before cameras were everywhere, trouble makers were taught violently who would not tolerate their trouble makery.
I agree 100% with this statement. The person doesn't necessarily need to be beat up but there aren't any real social consequences to being an asshole anymore. No one doing anti-social but not actually illegal things are dealt with.
Lets not forget some of them are creeps touching women on the dance floor. Those are the fucking worst cuz they always play the victim card when women retaliate. From a venue perspective you have to do something about them. Cuz if women don't feel safe at your venue you are 100% going out of business.
I worked at a venue where multiple bars nearby shared their patronscan ban list cuz we were having problem guys leaving one bar and starting problems in the next one. But not enough to get them arrested.
You are complete on point. When I was a kid (GenX) justice was metered out with fists if you got way out of line at the bar. In a way I prefer the old system because, and like you say now you are only accountable to the camera.
Beatings heal and it doesn't follow you like a video of you showing your ass at the bar/where ever.
But you can't fight the insurance companies, if they want cameras/scanners or they are going to double your rates you know whats going to happen. The issue I have with cameras is its a double edge sword. It can bite you as much as it can save you.
I have mixed feelings. As someone mentored by a 40 year industry veteran I know that bouncers also crossed the line regularly. I wish I could prescribe a middle ground but I don't how one would define that.
I get that, its a tight rope.
Speaking over stepping I've seen our regular cops over step and tune someone right up in the parking lot then walk away w/ no issues as the other party gets cuffed and stuffed. Same w/ townies, they rarely get arrested if the other party isn't from around here...
I seen it both ways. Seen RCMP tune up a legit scumbag and catch charges cuz it was in public. Also seen multiple RCMP absolutely brutalize innocent people.
I have spent over half my career in the work force dealing with violence professionally. I don't wanna "see action" anymore. I just wanna get paid and go home. Which is part of the problem. The people with good heads on their shoulders get burnt out.
So a polaroid picture of the banned person being posted where the IDs are being checked is too complicated then?
too complicated
It's not scaleable.
Imagine trying to rely on that system in a club of >500 patrons with 15 security guards and 2 entrances?
Imagine waiting in line to get in while they check every single face against a wall of 100+ photos
Also at what point is this trouble maker going to sit nicely so I can get a recognizable photo in a dark room with smoke strobe lights?
Lets say I ban a guy mid-shift. How do I communicate that to the rest of the security team? Leave my door to show everyone the photo? Have everyone else leave their post to check the wall?
What you're saying works, it just doesn't scale.
Probably so they can be bitchy and catty and gossip about each other even more. Wait, gay men's bars or gay women's bars? Because gay women don't do that nearly as much.