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submitted 4 days ago by Sibbo@sopuli.xyz to c/selfhosted@lemmy.world

I know that I can simply make my own private certificate authority that only I and my family trust. But is there some public provider like letsencrypt that is in a free-er part of the world than the US?

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[-] themurphy@lemmy.ml 130 points 4 days ago

Is anyone wonders why it's a problem it's under US juristriction:

Look up the US Cloud Act. It's everything the media told you China was, but in the hands of an orange dictator.

[-] philipp_@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 3 days ago

They have strong canaries in place, namely certificate transparency. They wisely designed themselves in a way to prevent themselves from tampering.

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[-] yesman@lemmy.world 85 points 4 days ago

Simi-related fun fact.

The biggest contributor to TOR is the CIA. They funded it's creation and are primarily responsible for maintaining it to this day.

The CIA maintains TOR as a way for spies to pass information over the internet. They make it public because if only spies used TOR it would be trivial to catch them. So it's in their interest that it be public and secure. It's open source and security experts agree you can trust it.

[-] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 10 points 3 days ago

So since this, according yo you, is a fact, I do suppose you have evidence to this claim? And I'm talking evidence that can be corroborated, not a Facebook post or something from a conspiracy sub, and not "oh man, everybody knows this!" because everybody doesn't know this.

[-] dogdeanafternoon@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 days ago

Crazy that you’re downvoted for asking for sources lol

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[-] plyth@feddit.org 52 points 4 days ago

The CIA, not navy intelligence?

The core principle of Tor, known as onion routing, was developed in the mid-1990s by United States Naval Research Laboratory employees, mathematician Paul Syverson, and computer scientists Michael G. Reed and David Goldschlag, to protect American intelligence communications online.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(network)

[-] Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 3 days ago

I thougnt it was the Navy, not CIA itself

[-] Johnmannesca@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

Yeah it was the NRL in Annapolis, Maryland

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[-] diecknet@discuss.tchncs.de 111 points 4 days ago

There are some commercial Certificate Authorities that offer free certificates. But in contrast Let's Encrypt is a non-profit.

  • ZeroSSL (Austria)
  • Actalis (Italy)
[-] victorz@lemmy.world 21 points 4 days ago

commercial

free certificates

How do they make money?

[-] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 35 points 4 days ago

Usually they make money with extended certificates where they not only offer a certificate for example.com but also certify that it belongs to Example Ltd.

Those extended certificates used to show the company name next to address bars, but I don't think browsers do that anymore.

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[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 36 points 4 days ago

Let's encrypt is very transparent and has been designed to be auditable. What are you worried about exactly?

[-] herseycokguzelolacak@lemmy.ml 17 points 3 days ago

Still American. de-Americanizing the tech stack is a good idea.

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[-] thericofactor@sh.itjust.works 29 points 3 days ago

That the U.S. government can arbitrarily take down websites by revoking certificates issued by let's encrypt? How obvious can it be? I wondered the same thing as OP months ago. We need european alternatives. I think there are some, have some bookmarked somewhere.

[-] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 16 points 3 days ago
[-] Randelung@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago

Huh, FF on Android doesn't care.

[-] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago

Most browsers don't, hence my calling revocation a joke.

So many in this thread are up in arms about something the majority of browsers don't care about and have actively ignored for as long as I can recall

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[-] flandish@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago

uncle sam. audit away. until sam says “give me the keys” and then sam has the keys

[-] pdl@social.tchncs.de 10 points 3 days ago

@flandish @possiblylinux127 Letsencrypt just has the public keys, no private keys. If Letsencrypt gives my public keys to sam, it does not matter, because public keys are public. My private key is under my administration only.

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[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

The transparency logs would mean that any rouge certificates created would leave a paper trail not to mention there is nothing stopping them from issuing a certificate for any domain of their choosing

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[-] talkingpumpkin@lemmy.world 32 points 4 days ago

What risk are you trying to mitigate, specifically?

If it's the CA taking over your site, control over your CA specifically doesn't really give any advantage to an attacker (they would have to hijack traffic and provide a new certificate - nobody will notice if the certificate is from a different CA).

Note that your CA cannot decrypt the exchanges between your server and its clients.

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[-] pHr34kY@lemmy.world 35 points 4 days ago

I don't think anyone is gonna solve that problem until it's actually a problem.

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[-] Fmstrat@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

It is surprisingly easy to add a custom CA to phones and laptops. When I migrated to services using one with names like thisservice.lan I thought it would be a lot harder. I just have a generation script that makes a new cert and I throw it in NGINX.

[-] rumba@lemmy.zip 5 points 2 days ago

Just don't get too close to TV's or streaming boxes. Wildly different levels of hell

[-] Fmstrat@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

Very true. I do have a let's encrypt wildcard cert that I also use with internal IPs for instances like this. But most of my items don't require that.

[-] rumba@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 day ago

awesome, I just setup traefik / le on an old sort domain of mine and make everything inside support https.

Honestly, I was hoping to add client only certs on my jellyfin and open it to friends an family, but none of their streaming devices support it.

[-] Fmstrat@lemmy.world 2 points 11 hours ago

Yea, I've recently learned LineageOS has an AndroidTV version that runs on a lot of devices, including the Pi. Been considering investigating that.

[-] A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip 32 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

This is why I never even started using Letsencrypt; looking at the fine print, you actually enter into some kind of contract ~~with some US entity~~ under US law, which I don't want even if it's the coolest of all FOSS foundations.

Here's a site that has some info:
https://www.eurotoolkit.eu/categories/certificate-authority-ca
I have used certum.pl for years and it looks like I might go back to them soon because my VPS provider doesn't offer bundled certs anymore.

I used to pay €40/year iirc.
I suspect it's gotten more expensive though.

edit:
oh looks like ZeroSSL are doing it letsencrypt-style with Acme protocol for €0.

edit2:
No, not more expensive. Some of the providers in the above link are labyrinthine and I couldn't even find a Pricing section - usually a sign that it's too expensive at least for a normal consumer - but others offer yearly certs for as little as €30 (taxes not included).

edit3:
Yeah some people are going to have a hard time accepting that a contract with a for-profit company under EU jurisdiction might be preferable to a contract with a non-profit under US jurisdiction.

[-] drkt@scribe.disroot.org 35 points 4 days ago

I've been using ZeroSSL for over 5 years and can attest that they are friendly in that I have literally never seen or heard from them.

I've set up and cancelled multiple domains in this time, and have had one domain running for the entirety of my time with ZeroSSL.

I don't think you (OP) are gonna find much better than a for-profit business with a good track record if you're unwilling to use Letsencrypt.

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[-] pdl@social.tchncs.de 24 points 4 days ago

@Sibbo I do not see any problem with Letsencrypt. Any CA which is widely trusted has to follow the same rules. This rules are set up by the CA Browser Forum. Which metadata does LE collect? My server's IP address, domain and subdomain, mail address. These are logged in the CT logs. Every CA has to log all certificates in a public CT log. Regardless which CA I choose, these data are public. There are not any critical data or metadata that LE can collect.

[-] Sibbo@sopuli.xyz 27 points 4 days ago

Letsencrypt can be directly forced to revoke certificates by the US. Organisations outside of the US are less vulnerable against that.

[-] slazer2au@lemmy.world 36 points 4 days ago

And ICAAN can hand your domain over to US law enforcement regardless of the TLD and your register.

Is that also part of your decision tree?

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this post was submitted on 19 Sep 2026
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