All the time. People tend not to take it well but that seems their problem.
Also it's one of the things destroying politics.
Also it’s one of the things destroying politics.
That's often the previous stop on this train of thought. There are maga people that in their secret heart know they've made a mistake, but they struggle to come to terms with that. Though that also carries the fear of losing all their social bonds and being rejected by the group.
Exactly, it's two sided trained behavior. On one side, no guilt is admitted leading to all downsides of never learning and on the other side there's a ruthless expectation. It can never work.
It doesn't help that any time a politician changes their opinion on something, the other side jumps on them for it and accuses them of flip-flopping. In reality, changing a view when presented with a compelling argument or new information is a good thing but they use it as ammunition to attack each other, so of course everyone just sticks to their guns no matter what...
I try to express my wrongness in a casual way in front of my child or children in general. I aim for them to take away that it's not a big deal and there is no big stakes in always being right. And if I am right I try to argue facts and attempt to leave personal stakes out of it.
I actually usually admit if I'm wrong, but I think I don't if it's a thing where it's obvious I was wrong and the other party is holding it over my head. It's a character flaw but also I don't really know how to deal with that situation because admitting I'm wrong to a person doing that, in my mind, gives them permission to blame me for anything else adjacent to the situation, which is usually unfair.
I understand you, but try to see it from a different perspective: by admitting your error you are in fact taking their ammunition away! Continue on and if they try to bring it up again and again you can ask them why they can't move on, do they have a problem?
I appreciate that suggestion. That is probably the exact way for me to think of it. Now if I can break this pattern...
It's comments like yours that give me faith in Lemmy honestly. They do a lot to cancel out the judgy and angry ones.
My mother never admitted that she was wrong. I don't want to be like that to my kids or any one else.
I can get defensive, but with some after thought I will admit I was wrong.
Every time someone is able to convince me I'm wrong, which is not hard to do, I tend to consider things logically, so empirical evidence that I'm wrong will make me flip immediately. Unfortunately most people use very flawed arguments like trying to appeal to emotions or strawmaning my point (or one of the many fallacious things we all have to deal online). And that will not convince me, in fact it only proves you have absolutely no argument. Which is very unfortunate because I'm wrong quite often, and it only takes one person pointing at actual evidence that I'm wrong to make me realize that, yet the majority of my disagreements online end up at an impasse with the person refusing to find common ground to build the debate up.
Unfortunately most people use very flawed arguments like trying to appeal to emotions or strawmaning my point (or one of the many fallacious things we all have to deal online). And that will not convince me, in fact it only proves you have absolutely no argument
One thing I struggle to remember sometimes is someone can make a bad argument, but what they're arguing for can still be true.
I used to work with a guy that would argue with me, and sometimes at the end he'd be like "I actually agree with your point, but I wanted you to be right for solid reasons"
Of course, it's also very common for people to be making bad arguments because they're just feeling stuff, and they're pulling together whatever words come close to capturing that right now.
Yes, bad arguments can be made about true statements, but people need to understand that you won't convince anyone with bad arguments, and that discrediting an argument is not the same as discrediting the statement or attacking the person who made it.
For example, just the other day there was a thread about how pitbulls are supposedly more aggressive than other breeds, but the argument they used was "they're a minority of the population, yet cause the majority of fatalities, therefore they're aggressive", which is a TERRIBLE argument that discards all other possible explanations for the observed statistics. It may be true that pitbulls are more aggressive than other dogs, but that argument will never convince me as it's just plain wrong. And pointing out just how absurd the argument is brought up a bunch of angry people asserting pitbulls are aggressive and attacking me personally for discrediting the logic.
I used to work with a guy that would argue with me, and sometimes at the end he'd be like "I actually agree with your point, but I wanted you to be right for solid reasons"
Yeah, I do that as well, I call it playing devil's advocate, it's helpful to be sure the decisions you're reaching are actually the best ones.
One of the best interview questions rarely asked. I hate working with people who have to always be right.
When I'm wrong ... I admit I'm wrong. No shame in being wrong about something.
Whenever I'm wrong 😀
Yeah, I scream it from the rooftops (figuratively).
As often as I am actually wrong.
Tap for spoiler
Which of course is NEVER!
All the time...
Being wrong is the pre-requiest to learning something.
If you live your whole life only running into shit you already know, what the fuck is the point?
What makes it confusing is someone that lived a life like that, is gonna accumulate a shit ton of random knowledge. To the point people think of them as a "know it all" when it's just the normal result of an inquisitive life.
Basically, the people that can't admit they're wrong never learn anything except how to keep arguing longer than the person trying to help them. There's people walking around everyday that think they understand things, because everyone who knows better also knows explaining ain't worth the time.
I can't think of a single time someone has admitted to having been wrong about something and me thinking less of them because it. It's always the opposite yet it's still so painful being in that spot yourself.
I was talking about this with someone a while ago and they suggested that some people's lived experiences have been more... abusive. Like as a child if they made a mistake their parents treated them like shit. Now they have that untreated trauma deep in their personality. When they make a mistake like making a reservation at the wrong time, they subconsciously think it's going to be like when their dad screamed at them, smacked them, and sent them to bed without dinner. So they lie and prevaricate to avoid that.
I don't know how often that kind of early childhood trauma is the root of the behavior, but if that is happening that's really sad.
I have my suspicions that my ex is like this because of bad parenting.
When my baby nephew tries to stack his stacking rings, my family praises him even if he has the order wrong. It's how babies learn.
I suspect that people who can't admit when they're wrong had parents who told them not to do a task unless they could do it right the first time
I'd like to believe I do it every time I recognize that I am wrong. Equally as important, I think, it to constantly admit, to yourself, and to others where appropriate, that you could be wrong.
The fallibility of human memory and reasoning is enormous, even for very smart people. I think few people properly appreciate this. If you develop that appreciation it is really trivial to admit you are wrong, it's like admitting that you ate.
When I am wrong and there is evidence?
It makes sense to me, because you learned something.
Once I realize it I will admit it. I kind of like it because it opens up a little spot in my head that's eager to be filled with better information.
Whenever I am wrong. So pretty often, since I learn best by making mistakes.
ETA I do get defensive when someone is mean about it. With my ex it was harder because he mocked relentlessly and though he could dish it, could not take it. Nice in plenty of ways but so mean in others. With husband now, and at every job I've had, it's no big deal.
wrong? what does that mean?
I try very hard to never be wrong, but, like all of us, I fail often. I have a scholar brain, I love learning new things, so if I'm wrong that's an opportunity to learn something, makes it easier for me I guess.
When I'm wrong, I always admit it immediately.
It just hasn't happened yet /s
Whenever I am wrong.
Daily.
Whenever's there's a disagreement I'll at least entertain that I might be wrong.
Being wrong and not knowing it feels exactly like being right. You wouldn't know.
Nevermind situations that are more about perspectives than actually binary right/wrong.
Depending on who I am talking to.
If it's a person that never admits to being wrong I will have my fun and just say whatever. Doesn't matter with those people.
If it is a person which admits fault, being wrong... Makes themselves vulnerable in general, I do te same.
But I got burned one time to much to still treat assholes as something other then a waste of time.
We'll find out if I am ever wrong. 😤
More often than I'm actually wrong
Which... is a problem. I think I learned to do this in order to not offend bosses, might have something to do with my field of work...
Often, but I still constantly realize that I was proven wrong a few days before and I held on to the wrong opinion rather than admit it. It is a constant battle to honestly admit when I am wrong to people.
All the time.
If i make a mistake I own upto it like an adult
When it comes up and I am actually wrong.
I would guess a few dozen times a year since I work in a complicated field where we take our best guess and sometimes it isn't right so admitting being wrong and doing things differently has better outcomes than digging in heels.
There are a lot of people I've known who really focus on other people admitting they were wrong but somehow they are never at fault themselves.
Quite a bit. It's the adult thing to do.
I'll let you know when it happens... /s
Just kidding. I'm not THAT big of an asshole.
Since having kids, anytime I make a mistake or jump to a conclusion, I try to model for them how to say sorry and make it right.
That said, I don't make mistakes that often; I'm much more likely to just say I don't know or I have no opinion. I think it's most important to teach people it's ok to not know or have enough information to make a judgement.
I remember once when I was a kid, my uncle asked me something or other. I dithered for a bit, and then admitted I didn't actually know. He said something really nice about how it's much better to just say you don't know than to dig deeper into bullshit. Really stuck with me, for some reason.
I noticed some specific women liked me more when I would do that. So of course I made that my entire personality.
Whenever I am wrong.
I'll admit I'm wrong more often than I'll say I was right. I know I'm stupid and most likely got 0 idea what I'm talking about.
narcissist do that, they wont admit, and will just double down.
At least once or twice a week. Maybe more, a lot of the silly mistakes I make and apologise for are pretty forgettable.
For actual book knowledge things you can look up, once every couple months or less. Mostly because I look up a lot of book knowledge, and rarely am behind the curve.
Subjective-ish things are a weird one, because the reason why you arrive at whatever conclusion has a lot more substance than whatever it happens to be. You pretty much have to grow as a person to change your mind on politics, for example. There are people who, if I could speak to them again, I'd like to tell they planted a seed that eventually won me over.
I think some people believe admitting fault is a sign of weakness, but I find it’s more of a power move.
The shitty thing is, certain people will take nothing away from that about your character. It just means you were totally wrong and cornered into admitting it, so you must not be very smart. The end.
Now, maybe those aren't the best people, but there still might be a cost to ignoring them.
Always?
I despise being wrong, so I will readily admit it and change my position as soon as it's clear.
One hack I use sometimes is suffixing 'i could be wrong' to the end of sentences when I'm not sure so that I'm already halfway there and can easily switch my opinion.
This comes with the side effect of being very hard to convince otherwise when I'm quite sure I'm right.
In real life, I often can't be bothered debating people especially when it's something trivial or when I don't care about them enough to help them see the error of their ways, so I'll concede with a 'maybe' just to move on from it.
Whenever I become aware of it, either through my own realization or someone else pointing it out. I'll always double check before coming out and saying it, but if my first stance is actually wrong, I have no problem admitting it
Frequently. When I recognize I'm wrong; it's a couple of times a week at least.
That does not generally coincide with when Lemmy thinks I'm wrong, which also happens a couple of times a week.
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