Other countries didn't give women the right to vote, so why should we? It's because it's the right thing to do, and other countries will eventually follow.
this post was submitted on 15 Jun 2023
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Sorry David but we're running out of time on this.
The party would also remove barriers to the uptake of emissions-reducing technologies and allow on-farm sequestration, he said.
We could use proceeds from the ETS to fund these types of projects so that farmers pay less in the long run. The additional cost burden of ETS on polluters will help push them to find ways to reduce pollution, and we can use it to help fund the solutions. It's the carrot and the stick approach, but Seymour is pretending there is no carrot here.
The subtext of this is "if we aren't forced we don't want to do anything to help reduce emissions".
Who cares if other countries aren't doing anything? It's the right thing to do so why not just get on and do it?
If everyone thought like this nothing would ever change, it has to start somewhere.
We should only tax emissions if it’s part of wider ecological tax reform. Remove all taxes on ‘goods’ (such as labour) and tax the ‘bads’ (such as pollution). This will rebalance the economy and get the right incentives in the right place.
I don't think new Zealand should worry about our emissions. Us being world leaders in emission reduction doesn't change anything. We make up less than 0.1% of the emissions.
As long as the China and the USA continue their pollution we are doomed.
Emissions per captia is a dumb metric. Having 1 billion people doesn't allow you to pollute more than other countries.
Because it's the right thing to do.
Two wrongs don't make a right; we need to look at our own house before we can start throwing stones. Everyone needs to be pulling in the same direction in this boat.
Plus some other analogies.
The fact is we're running out of time on this and the ones who suffer will be future generations. Time to get our collective head out of our arse.
I recommend the book Ministry for the Future for a blow by blow account of what the geopolitics will be across the next 5 decades.
Its a competitive world and I don't want to make things harder for new Zealanders who are already struggling when there's a single country responsible for 30% of global emissions who isn't slowing down nor do they plan to even start slowing down for another 7 years. One country polluting more than the next 6 biggest countries combined.
Why should nz be punished? We have kept our population at a sustainable level we are making efforts to curb emissions. We could cut emissions to 0 and nothing would change.
I would like to see nz farmers have more regulations but I don't consider carbon emissions as that important. It would be fine if they pass but it would also be fine if they dont pass. I would rather see regulations for them to stop polluting waterways and something done about the local cost of meat and veggies.
Because again, it's the right thing to do.
I would like to see nz farmers have more regulations but I don’t consider carbon emissions as that important. It would be fine if they pass but it would also be fine if they dont pass. I would rather see regulations for them to stop polluting waterways and something done about the local cost of meat and veggies.
Why not both? How do you think the price of meat and veg is going to change once farmable land is no longer farmable? Once extreme weather events become twice a year? It is in everyone's best interests to work on this.
Where in the world is prior farm land not farmable because of climate change?
Lots of places. Large parts of the Midwest United States, India, Spain, north Africa. And it is only going to get worse.
It’s the right thing to do to maintain the support of the export markets we want to sell to in Britain and the UK. Especially the latter there’s already a big lobby against NZ meat, and if they get to a point where they can empirically show emissions per kg are way worse then we will lose access to the market.
The UK supermarket chains will pull the strings, exactly how egg production in NZ has changed to meet the domestic market expectations led by supermarket buying power. Farmers can’t ignore it, no matter how unfair it may or may not be.
if they get to a point where they can empirically show emissions per kg are way worse then we will lose access to the market
This is a key concern for me. NZ's comparative contribution to carbon emissions between countries doesn't matter much if our trading options become more limited due to current and potential trading partners considering the emissions we produce.
It doesn't necessarily even matter if we're the most efficient producers of those products. We also need to be conscious of possibilities where NZ's primary exports that we rely on so much, like meat and milk, might simply be undermined by more carbon efficient synthetic alternatives as they improve.
We're all 'being punished' by climate change and ecosystem collapse and it's gonna get worse before (if) it gets better. 'Whataboutism' and pointing fingers gets us nowhere.
Unfortunately the worst effects will absolutely hit the poorest and those least responsible for causing the problem first and hardest. It's inherently unjust, but EVERYONE needs to be fully on board, not just 'making efforts' to curb emissions. Sacrifices will be made. We have to choose now which ones to make, or those choices will be made for us by the environment.
A small social democracy like NZ is well positioned to become a world leader/model for how change can be implemented. Retooling our economy away from primary industries is an opportunity.
A small social democracy like NZ is well positioned to become a world leader/model for how change can be implemented. Retooling our economy away from primary industries is an opportunity.
Retooling our economy how? We have an education, cost of living and skilled labour crisis. Now is not a good time to be damaging Reliable primary industry.
It's not about that 0.1%. It's about setting an example. US and China can otherwise say: we don't do anything because eg NZ doesn't do anything either.
US and China are world leaders. They are not looking to new zealand for anything.
We need to trade. If we want more access to $$$ markets, we should abdolutely lead. You way is the way of the price taker, not the price setter.