e.g. I just started reading "Ultra-processed people, the science behind food that isn't food" the amount of confirmation bias is truly staggering; I haven't had it like this in the past. A lot of the points are written down what I have been thinking for years (decades even).

I feel like I need to look for a competing view to check my existing bias, the author has done some of this and basically calls out the competing views as compromised by conflict of interest from the food industry.

[–] luthis 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Depends what it is. It can be fun to explore the other side. Sometimes infuriating when you discover that your bias was actually correct and the other side is actually full of idiots. Ie flat earth, communism, trickle down economics, people who make things out of old pallets.

[–] absGeekNZ 4 points 1 year ago

This is very astute; there are some things where "the other side" is so clearly wrong that it doesn't warrant investigation; beyond the question of how people fall into these logical traps.

i.e. flat earth, 5g causing whatever.

It can be enlightening to examine the logical tricks/traps that are used to move people along these lines of thought. The tricks are similar to cults/religions radicalizing people.

[–] liv 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

trickle down economics, people who make things out of old pallets.

Wait, please can you elaborate on that last one?

[–] luthis 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

😂 That one was the joke one

[–] liv 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Phew, I'm glad I still get to keep believing that this really happens!

[–] sortofblue 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm proof! My raised vege garden was built from a pallet. Now you have a legitimate 'my internet friend' argument.

[–] liv 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Faith in pallet humanity restored!

Hmm that sounds really good actually, were you able to use just one pallet and cut the bottom out?

[–] sortofblue 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My dad built it - he pulled the whole thing apart and reassembled it. It's basically just a trough about eight inches off the ground, with a frame over the top for hanging bird netting over. He actually did a really job and could probably make some pocket money flicking them on the local facebook page.

[–] liv 1 points 1 year ago

That sounds really cool!

[–] Dave 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Are pallets generally untreated timber?

[–] sortofblue 2 points 1 year ago

I think you get both - the one I was given is untreated but we lined it with plastic anyway is some of the gaps were a bit big.

[–] sortofblue 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, I don't, and I've never really thought about it before. Being able to look at something objectively has never really been on my mind and with everything moving towards extremes (everything being climate and politics, the two favourite chew toys of the media) I guess it's something I've sort of fallen into.

I guess there's comfort in finding something that supports your own opinion and looking for competing ideas seems a bit like looking for something to stress about.

Cheers for the thought, that's given me something to ponder on the way to work this morning 🤔

[–] absGeekNZ 6 points 1 year ago

Most people don't; this is what fuels division about any in group/out group system. Politics, religion, brands, sports....by not checking assumptions and bias, you are going with the comfortable.

It isn't always a bad thing to have a bias, but it is always good to examine ones bias and prejudice.

[–] liv 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Instead of jumping straight to competing views I habitually first look at the basis for the view.

So for your example I would be looking at his sources of scientific information, checking that they do in fact say what he thinks they say and that they were published in journals of good standing.

Then I would look around the subject a bit and see if they represent the consensus or if there is debate over them.

I often see people argue competing views while accepting flawed premises. For example a person presenting the view that the measles vaccine was what was responsible for the notable worldwide rise in child respiratory illnesses in the same timeframe. The opposing argument was that correlation doesn't equal causation and there isn't necessarily a link.

But in reality when I took a look there wasn't even any correlation to begin with, as child respiratory infections have decreased in that timeframe. So in this case neither the view or the competing view are meaningful.

[–] absGeekNZ 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is a very good point; if the premise is flawed, no argument can make it cogent.

In this specific example, the author provides extensive references to both papers that support his view and those that are countering his view, but then points out the conflicts of interest in the papers that are opposed, he doesn't seem to provide any conflict of interest information in the supporting papers, the reader is left to assume (beyond a few instances) that there are none.

[–] liv 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That sounds good. I'd always want to take a look under the hood myself though.

Like, quickly check if what he's presented really is a representative sample of his opponents' output. Another good shortcut for if it's really not your field/intelligible to you, is to check what other reputable scientists are saying about his work and why.

My habit of double-checking facts can drive people a bit crazy though.

[–] absGeekNZ 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In my field, I generally will get multiple sources for complex things.

In other stuff that I'm interested in, I'm less rigorous. But in this instance, I feel the confirmation bias is so strong, I need to do a bit more checking.

[–] liv 3 points 1 year ago

Fair enough. I think I have the same bias as you about overly processed food.

[–] Splenetic@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I try to. I started because I got so annoyed with others failing to do this.

However, I still fail at it often enough to occasionally embarrass myself.

[–] absGeekNZ 3 points 1 year ago

Don't do it for them, do it for you.

It makes you more aware of your bias, and thus hopefully will consider the other side and its merits. I always remember the quote (though I can;t remember who said it) "no one is the villain in their own story", there will be a reason why they believe what they do, sometimes understanding will permit a dialog where friction will only cause more friction.

[–] sortofblue 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I'm thinking I'll post a photo challenge this Friday and then have a thread next Friday for everyone to post their snaps. I usually get inspired on the weekends then forget during the week so having a week to get sorted will be good. If anyone has any prompts or ideas feel free to post them because I'll probably resort to Pinterest lists and they're probably not going to appeal to everyone 😆

And then there will be a post on Monday demanding to see your hobbies are because I'm nosy and in need of inspiration, lol.

[–] luthis 4 points 1 year ago

Sign me up!

[–] KhanumBallZ 4 points 1 year ago

I'll be sure not to disappoint.

I'm usually great at inspiring people, though I do have a kryptonite that keeps my superpowers in check; lack of money. 😉

[–] Rangelus 3 points 1 year ago

I'm down for a photography challenge!

[–] luthis 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I was wondering why I couldn't load a community, and then noticed it was hosted on hexbear lol

Does anyone ever get one cold hand? It's always my mouse hand, so I am wearing one glove.

What a great day to be out biking. Pity I'm working.

[–] Fizz 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I never have a problem with cold hands but my feet get cold even in socks.

[–] liv 3 points 1 year ago

Me too. If there's no heat to keep in, in the first place, all a sock is going to do is maintain them at their current icy temperature!

[–] Ozymati 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Is there a market niche for heated mice?

[–] Dave 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Reading your comment out of context was interesting. I thought "well you aren't going to eat them cold?"

[–] luthis 3 points 1 year ago

😂

[–] Ozymati 2 points 1 year ago

Ha!

[–] luthis 2 points 1 year ago

Pretty sure there is a niche for the opposite for gamers.

[–] Ilovethebomb 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Funnily enough, I just got an account banned from Lemmygrad. They're a sensitive bunch.

[–] throws_lemy 3 points 1 year ago

I got banned from lemmy.ml weeks ago for talking China and Uyghurs 😅

[–] KhanumBallZ 4 points 1 year ago

Slow day today. More rain and rain and rain...

I've drawn up a battle-plan for my sailboat build. There's a company called WiseMove that could haul a 4-5m boat for me for around $500 (under 200kg). Each 5.5m hull will be joined to another near-identical hull, with bolts going from below the waterline, to the very top of the U frame, in order to create a modular 34ft multihull (4x modules). An inner water barrier keeps the hulls from flooding at the seams.

There's moorings for rent in Whangamata ($40pw), and bus services that could take me from there to Auckland (Go-Kiwi), then back to Otorohanga. I could build the entire vessel for less than $5,000-$7,000. It's really the high-tech stuff that makes yachts expensive. (e.g. 1x sheet-winch = $500, 2x halyard jammers = $500, 1x Outboard engine = $2500-$4000). Construction and photos should start by Friday when my timber arrives. Let's democratize yachting!