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submitted 17 hours ago by Mr_Fish to c/politics

The election results this year are bad. Even if you voted for the national coalition, I think you should be angry about this year's results because they go against the point of MMP. I have two ideas of how to fix overhangs and make sure the government is always proportional, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

Idea 1, the simpler solution: Just add more list seats. Fill up all the electorate seats, then add list MPs until there are at least the base number of seats, and adding another seat would make it less proportional. Pros: It's simple, intuitive, and makes more sense than allowing overhangs. Cons: There could be a lot of MPs in the house.

Idea 2, STV + MMP: This idea uses STV or some other ranked system to elect the electorate MPs, which would be better than the FPTP we use for them now. But in this case, if an overhang happens, the overhang seat with the thinnest majority would be recalculated with the previous winner's votes transferred. Pros: it works in a better system for the electorates, and it makes for a consistent size of parliament. Cons: It's slightly more confusing for the voters, and calculating the seats could take much longer.

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[-] Venator 4 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

I don't see how STV is confusing for voters: you just rank the candidates in order of how much you like/hate them...

But the main issue is if we try to get STV, we'll more likely end up losing MMP entirely as people will vote for FPP in a referendumb...

6855

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_New_Zealand_voting_system_referendum

[-] Dave 2 points 31 minutes ago* (last edited 31 minutes ago)

STV is commonly used in local council elections (but still a lot of FPP too), so it should be familiar to many voters.

I can't believe that referendum was 15 years ago! It seems more recent but perhaps I'm just remembering Luxon saying he wants another one.

[-] Venator 1 points 8 minutes ago

I can't believe that referendum was 15 years ago!

True, i didn't realise it was that long ago, maybe people's perception of STV might have changed since then...

[-] deadbeef79000 4 points 15 hours ago

I was thinking about this today: that you can just fill up just seats until the party vote proportions are met.

Sure it might mean they have to squeeze 200 MP's into the chamber, so what? I assume there's some natural limit to the number need that's some clever factor of the 79 electorate seats... but can't be bothered trying to work that out.

I'm not entirely sure what value the FPP electorate seats bring anyway.

[-] Dave 7 points 14 hours ago

I’m not entirely sure what value the FPP electorate seats bring anyway.

I think the electorate seats are to make sure every area of the country has someone local that represents them. Otherwise you'd get the whole parliament full of Aucklanders and Wellingtonites, and there would be no local office with an MP you could talk to.

I get the reason for electorate seats, but I don't see why they need to be FPP. At least let us do a ranking.

[-] absGeekNZ 5 points 5 hours ago

Some electorate MP's are much better than others. In Taupō we have Louise Upston, we literally never see her at any local events or anything. I have been living here for 15 years, not once has she turned up.

Contrast that to my BIL in Waikanae; his local MP goes to community events every week, is at park run most Saturdays, and is easy to get face time with.

I don't know anyone who isn't a business owner that has had face time with Louise.

[-] Dave 3 points 3 hours ago

I guess the idea is that local people should vote in someone who is visible! But MPs also typically (always?) have a local office that can be contacted if you do want to talk to the MP. I have in my time seen many requests from local MPs to try to resolve issues people are having with government.

[-] absGeekNZ 4 points 3 hours ago

I tried that a few years ago, WRT an issue with the MoE, got a few platitudes from a staffer and that was about it. No followup or ways to raise the issue with the MoE just bland nothing responses.

[-] Dave 2 points 2 hours ago

Typically it just gets handled through the standard complaints process just with more urgency. MPs don't really have the power to change the outcome (unless they also happen to be a minister of the department, then they might have some power). It's also a way to make it visible if there is a government change needed as the MP might have some influence on government policy.

For the record, the complaints process does regularly lead to changed outcomes. Staff fuck up sometimes and in my experience the complaints process does lead to reviewing and changing outcomes where needed.

But also I haven't seen this process at MoE and I'm pretty sure they are one if the departments with a bad reputation 🤷

[-] BlueEther@no.lastname.nz 6 points 17 hours ago

I voted for MMP back in the day, now I'm showing my age.

I think a STV/MMP hybrid system now makes more sense, at least for the party vote. For the overhang, do we go down the road of shifting the thresh hold up? I'm not sure that I like that idea.

[-] absGeekNZ 8 points 15 hours ago

Germany has already had and solved this issue, This is a good place to start.

We would be foolish not to take the lessons they learned.

[-] rimu@piefed.social 4 points 15 hours ago

Very interesting, thanks

[-] luthis 4 points 16 hours ago

Apparently Germany already had this issue. I have no idea, I just don't want the American system here at any cost

[-] Dave 5 points 17 hours ago

@absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz mentioned this opinion piece.

It discusses how the same problem has been solved overseas. I am concerned that overhang gaming will become the new normal, so far we have the coalition retaining government on less than 50% of the vote, and the special votes are unlikely to put them above the 50% mark.

this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2026
12 points (100.0% liked)

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